Jason Burke: "The 9/11 Wars" / B. Obama: "Iraq. The Definition of Success"

(i thoroughly recommend jason burke's last book.  among other things (including ha detailed reference of how widespread the use of torture by the west seems to have been -- including, it would seem, also by spanish troops-) you can find quotes such as the following by then senator b. h. obama, april 2008.  agree or disagree, this certainly contrasts with the goals bush and blair intended to achieve with the war in iraq.   incidentally, STOP GUANTANAMO NOW)

"See, the problem I have is if the definition of success is so high — no traces of al Qaeda and no possibility of reconstitution; a highly effective Iraqi government; a democratic, multi-ethnic, multi- sectarian, functioning democracy; no Iranian influence, at least not of the kind that we don’t like — then that portends the possibility of us staying for 20 or 30 years. If on the other hand, our criteria is a messy, sloppy status quo, but there’s not, you know, huge outbreaks of violence; there’s still corruption, but the country’s struggling along but it’s not a threat to its neighbors and it’s not an al Qaeda base; that seems, to me, an achievable goal within a measurable time frame."